tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News February 10, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EST
beat him that's why i'm not backing him. >> she has all the things he doesn't have. >> sean: they are all going to be announcing, great slate. >> let's get going. >> sean: are you running? >> i'm not. but i'm going to be watching closely. >> sean: thank you. let not your heart be troubled. the news continues with greta. see you tomorrow night. >> greta: this is a fox news alert. fear is seizing everyone who is watching egypt. it could get bloody real fast. crowds of anger, protesters furious. all day they've been told that their dreams and demands were coming true. that president mubarak would step down.9d=ñ that has not happened. defiant mubarak says he's staying put. the situation in egypt is volatile and changing every second, before our eyes. we'll take you live to cairo in a moment.
>> first, former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld. the longest serving secretary of defense in our history. served for nixon, ford and george w. bush. also one of the few americans to have met saddam hussein in person. he has earned another title, author. he's the author of the new book "known and unknown" the book delivers behind the scenes details of the bush administration that may surprise you. it may change your view of recent history. donald rumsfeld joins us live. good evening. >> good to be with you. >> greta: you were the youngest ever secretary of defense and perhaps the oldest as well. there are so many different ways to describe you. there's a narrative that begins in terms of politics. beginning in lebanon 1983, it threads through looking at what is happening now in egypt. does egypt surprise you? >> there have been so many
events, as you suggest, marine barracks bombing in lebanon, the uss cole, first attack on world trade center, khobar bombings. all of those occurred in a sequence and in almost every instance they were treated as law enforcement problems. they about -- people were indicted in absence. missiles were fired off from time to time. but they never were connected as a problem broadly of terrorism and of people determined to kill americans and civilians and to impose their view against the nation state. >> greta: in talking about that, is that you looking back now and seeing what lebanon was like? did you think at that point we should be taking this more than a law enforcement matter?
>> clearly, as i discussed in the book, the -- in fact, i gave a speech in 1984, i believe, i talked about the fact that a terrorist can attack any place, any time, using any technique. it is not possible to defend against a terrorist attack at any moment of the day or night, against any technique. and the fact that we needed to treat it as a national security problem, rather than a series of isolated events. george schultz also gave a speech in 1985 on that subject. i guess the short answer to your question is, we both saw it as a problem of a different order than it was being considered, at that time. >> greta: it is interesting watching today's event in egypt. everybody is so uncertain what is going to happen and what we should do. time goes on we look back and think we should have done it this way. >> you are right. anyone who thinks they know of certain knowledge what going
to take place in egypt or other countries in the middle east, i think are probably not going to be correct. when you have this kind of turmoil and this kind of concern and uprising, it is not clear exactly how it will shake out over a period of time. one has to hope for the best and hope private diplomacy is taking place. the forces at work are varied. some really want a freer political institution or a free economic or economic opportunity. others are hard-core radicals who are determined to ultimately take control. you can have a very broad popular uprising and have it not end up in a democracy or a freer political situation, but a small group like in iran, take over the country and impose their will, because they happen to be the best organized and the most disciplined and the most vicious. >> greta: you met saddam hussein and president mubarak. president mubarak, what is he
like? >> husky, he was an ex-air force pilot. he used to play squash before he was 82. i met him when sadat was tacking president under the republic after -- was acting president under the republic after the death of nasser. we were together when president ford was meeting with president sadat and he was the new vice president. we were meeting and talking about flying and the air force and the united states navy. he tended to have a lot of energy. however, here we are, these many years since he's become president. the circumstance of the people of egypt they've not experienced a movement toward freer institutions, towards freer economic circumstances. the demographics in that part of the world are tough. there are enormous faction of the people are young. the degree of unemployment in those countries is gigantic.
that makes it difficult for the leader. churchill said dictators are autocrats tend to ride tigers and they are afraid to get off. >> greta: everybody wonders why he won't leave. he has dug his heels in and it is getting more dangerous. people thought today he would leave. >> try to put year self in his shoes. on the one -- put yourself in his shoes. on the one hand you can make an argument he would prefer to go out with some dignity or with some period of time. and not be thrown out. you can put yourself in his shoes and say you can make a rational case that he cares about egypt. he recognizes the ferment and he's apprehensive that ferment could lead to a radicalized country, a damage to the country, damage to the people. and he would be willing to
take the risk of trying to see that the transition is more orderly and have the military and he and/or his designees work over a period of time between now and september and see if they can structure a soft landing. >> greta: you think it is good rather than stubborn? >> it could be either one. can i can climb in his head. -- i can't climb in his head. i think it is one of those two things. it could even be a blend. >> greta: back to your book. you've spent so many fascinating presidencies. lbj doesn't come off well in your book. correct me if i'm wrong. the way i read your discussion in vietnam that president johnson was selfish and only thinking of himself. >> there was a remark he made that i have a big stake in this. ignoring the fact that the country had a big stake.
and the men and women serving in uniform had a big stake. i don't think that's necessarily a perfect characterization of him. i'll give you the other side of lyndon johnson. when charles de gaulle threw nato out of france and asked the united states to get its forces out of france in 1967 johnson was president. dean rusk had the responsibility of figuring out how you did that you get everyone out and move them. he went to president johnson and said i'm leaving to meet with charles de gaulle to make the final arrangements on our removal from france. johnson said, dean, you ask that s.o.b. if he wants us to bring the graves home from normandy? you got to like a president who does that. he knew the sacrifice that americans had made to free france in world war ii. he clearly understood how
selfish the act was on the part of de gaulle to throw nato out of france. he insisted that his secretary of state dean rusk do that. >> greta: in your book you said your most important vote was to vote for the civil rights act, as a republican. >> as a congressman. >> greta: most people think this was a democratic push, that bill. >> oh no, not at all. if you look at the data there were a much higher percentage of republicans that voted for the civil rights legislation in the 60s than democrats in the house and senate. lyndon johnson, to his great credit decided he wanted that legislation to pass. he worked closely with dirkson in the senate and the leadership in the house of representatives to get the legislation to pass. it was a major victory. and important for this country. we are a better country for having that legislation. >> greta: nixon, you worked for nixon, if i can find my
notes where it says about next son, that -- about nixon, i don't know to this day how to reconcile the man i knew with the tragedies he inflicted on himself and the nation. you liked nixon? >> i did. he was impressive, thoughtful, strategic, he cared about the country. he was not socially easy or graceful or easy with people. but the contributions he made were significant to the country. the people he brought into the government were impressive people who had affect on public policy in this country for the next 30, 40 years. he brought in alan greenspan and dick cheney. >> greta: who taught your daughter how to parallel park. >> it is better for a parent to let a friend do that. >> greta: is he one of your best friends cheney? >> sure we've been friends since 1969.
>> greta: even though you wouldn't hire him as an intern. >> that's not true he's teasing. he interviewed in my office in 1969. he was academic and i was looking for a lawyer. three months later i hired him when i into nixon's cabinet. >> greta: gerald ford, you loved him. >> i did. i served in congress with i am had -- with him. we were friends. i worked for a number of presidents. he's the only one that i had a strong relationship beforehand. so he was a friend as well as the president. he came into the white house in 1974 under just terrible circumstances. he had never run for president. he had never run for vice president. no one ever had served as president who didn't aren't for those two jobs. he didn't have a campaign team, a platform. he inherited an economy that was terrible in the 70s.
the vietnam war was coming to a terrible conclusion. the relationship between the congress and the executive branch was terrible. and the white house was considered an illegitimate institution. the reservoir of trust had been drained in our country. he did, because he was such a fine human being, he restored confidence in government. and did a wonderful job. and the country was fortunate that a man of that nature, that calibre, that basic human decency was serving then. >> greta: we'll take a quick break. we have lots more questions. i want to ask you about president bush as well. >> arizona governor brewer fired off a legal missile at the white house, smacking the obama administration with a big fat lawsuit. governor brewer is here. >> president mubarak talks to his nation that backfired big time. it has enraged protesters.
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most incredible security problems. bombings of the embassies in east africa, we had the uss col, 9/11 one security breach, intelligence problem. weapons of mass destruction he said slam-dunk that saddam had them. how did he manage to stay as director of the cia with all those security breaches under his watch? >> because he's selected by the president of the united states. >> greta: i understand that technically. there were so many, when we talk about all these terrorist attacks that did hit us. maybe there were so many more that i don't know about. i never could figure out with all those things under his watch through two administrations, how he managed to survive? >> first of all, i had a very close relationship with him. the department of defense and the central intelligence agency have to be connected at
the hip. the intelligence you rely on the department of defense comes from this broad intel community. he was enormously cooperative. the relationship we had is what enabled us to do what we did in afghanistan to get in and deal with the northern alliance and the southern afghan warlords and achieve that change in regime from the taliban and the al-qaeda out to the karzai regime in a matter of weeks. >> greta: that in theory wouldn't have happened had 9/11 hadn't happened. bin laden wasn't necessary -- even the uss cole all the talk about we would take the war to them. those things in a perfect world would never have happened. >> we don't live in a perfect world. the task of intelligence gathering today is enormously difficult.
we've gone through long periods where we've drawn down our intelligence funding and human assets. from a period when we focused on the soviet union intense civil over decades to a point where we have not just rogue states that are closed and very difficult to gain information from but we have networks, terrorist networks that don't have nations. that don't have parliments. >> greta: is the job that hard? >> the task of intelligence gathering is enormously difficult. we have a lot of fine people working on it. the implication that we ought to be able, as a country, to know the capabilities of all of the dangerous countries in the world, to know the intent of all the dangerous countries, the leaders of the dangerous countries in the world, not just the countries, but the terrorist networks, that is a -- an enormous task. we live from a dangerous world,
we have to face that. the weapons are increasingly lethal every year. and the damage that can be done to free people by people who are willing to attack innocence is enormous. and it is growing each year. i look at that task and i say to myself, is it possible to have perfection in there? ought we not to realize that if people can attack any place at any time and you can't defend every place at every moment we are bound to have to suffer. the fact that we have not had a terrorist attack in the united states for almost a decade is huge! >> greta: i grant that. it is absolutely huge. and i don't take away from that. although, the underwear bomber, we lucky with. that one we got lucky on. i want to ask you, where do the proceeds of the book go, your proceeds? >> all the proceeds that i would gain from this book are going to go to the troops to
the wounded to the fallen and their family. anyone who works with them and has the privilege to work with those folks has to come away recognizing that each is a volunteer. each one stuck up their hand and said i want to help defend the country. they sacrifice greatly. their families sacrifice as well. the rumsfeld foundation gives money to a variety of charities that support the troops and their family and the children of those who have fallen. that's where all the proceeds from this book will go. >> greta: it is a double, you get a good lesson in history learn about the secretary he's married to his high school sweetheart and you help the troops. nice to see you sir. >> appreciate it. >> greta: did president mubarak pull a fast one? protesters expected president mubarak to get out but he isn't budging. we take you cairo.
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a move being met with much resistance by the protesters who were expecting president mubarak to announce he was leaving. now the protesters are angrier and fired up more than ever. is there really a transfer of power to the vice president? john bolton joins us. do you have any clue what is going on? >> i think they've studied the greta van susteren interpretation of the egyptian constitution and realized if he actually resigned the presidency would have to go to the speaker of the parliament. he has stepped aside or said he is so vice president suleiman could take over. how much actual power he's surrendered, we don't know yet. >> greta: it hasn't satisfied the protesters and it is rather confusing. >> the speech was confusing. it hid the ball until near the end. to the extent the protesters were torqued up to expect a resignation you can blame that on the western media that fed off themselves all afternoon
saying it was coming when it wasn't. >> greta: we fed off the director of the cia panetta who testified on capitol hill he thought i was coming this is bizarre. >> i was a bad day for the u.s. intelligence services with the director of national intelligence general clapper saying the muslim brotherhood was a secular organization. >> greta: i was just speaking with former secretary of defense about this. a lot of history of intelligence there. today we hear this weird stuff coming from the director of the cia saying he thought he was resigning and he didn't. you wouldt; expect he would be a little bit more in the know than the rest of us. director of national intelligence saying that about the muslim brotherhood. i don't get it. >> there are a lot of intelligence failures. it is a problem. you have to operate on in the executive branch on less than perfect information and be prepared to accept a decision that is wrong because your
intelligence turned out to be different. for all those who continue to say bush lied about this and that look at what is happening in this administration. >> greta: bush was -- he got his information from george tenet who said it was a slam-dunk on saddam having weapons of mass destruction. if our intelligence community is failing so badly, they are supplying such poor information, the people at the top, i'm somewhat sympathetic to them. >> in that sense, if obama did not have the information you could hardly blame him for being confused. the same intelligence community is saying they briefed the white house in december and january on the risk of instability in egypt. we the facts on the ground get sored out this is something for congress to -- gets sorted out this is something for congress to take a close look at. >> greta: i would like more
add -- >> i think we would be much better off in evaluating intelligence if we rid of this idea you can have consensus. i think we should have competition among the intelligence agencies and let policymakers select among different points of view that would be farber. >> greta: back to president mubarak. if he steps down or relinquishs -- relinquishs power is this going towards a muslim brotherhood or towards a more secular government? >> the first question is the extent to which the military is onboard with this decision. you hear people saying the military may stage a coup or the military don't support mubarak. if he did not consult with them, if not bring them onboard with this decision. if this is not a unified decision it would be a remarkable change from the way he's governed for 30 years. at least as far as we can tell from the outside, the military has made its decision.
it has come down with mubarak and suleiman. now the issue is how they respond to what i expect will be a very large demonstration in cairo friday. >> greta: i make at sum the egyptian military is close to our military there's a lot of communication going back and forth. >> i think that is almost certainly right. i think we've had a restraining influence on the egyptian military. the issue is, what the military in egypt means when they say they are with the people? is their definition the people couple hunt thousand in tahrir square or do they have a different definition? we may find out the answer tomorrow. >> greta: it could be a bloody day tomorrow, at least that's what everyone is worried about. >> i hope it doesn't happen. but it looks like there are two opposing forbeses at work that are not reconcileable. i hope to avoid conflict. but it is a -- real possibility
tomorrow. >> greta: tang you. we take you live to egypt. everyone is nervous. no one knows what is going to happen, but fears the worst. things have been getting ugly. later arizona governor brewer is here. hear what she did today? she is suing the obama administration. why? she will tell you, next. ♪ [ male announcer ] here they come. all the new tech products you need. and they're all looking for the same thing. ♪ the one place that makes technology easy. staples. with highly-trained tech experts and expanded tech centers, staples makes finding the rig technology just the way you want it. easy easy to buy. easy to fix. easy to save. staples. that was easy.
dawn prayers on this day 18 of an extraordinary struggle between the people and government. the people wanting just one simple thing, that is choice. the choice to use -- choose their leader. them getting that choice has been talled bay hosni mubarak in a stunning and -- has been stalled by hassan nasrallah in a -- by hosni mubarak in a stunning statement. we were expecting him to make that statement, he appeared on national television and he did not give them what they wanted to hear. we had a square with 100,000 packed in there. and the disappointment and the disillusionment in the authority was written across their faces. what happens now? we are into a new day. a day in which many say, violence could return to the streets of cairo and elsewhere
in the country. as the people try to assert themselves and try to force out as best they can president hosni mubarak. he's is as determined as they are to stay here in tahrir square. hosni mubarak is determined to stay in his palace and cling on to power until the last moment. saying elections will come in september. to be honest, no one in the square behind me believes him, no one. >> greta: have you heard or spoken to the muslim brotherhood, any representatives since president mubarak spoke on state tv? >> reporter: they've told us they will be speaking tomorrow. however, i met with muslim brotherhood leadership yesterday. they had some very vocal statements. particularly what they've been pointing out in the discussions they've had the government, particularly omar suleiman who has been appointed the vice president here, they say there is no tangible evidence that a
transition is underway. supposedly for the past week that is what omar suleiman said is happening. the muslim brotherhood and other political parties say this is not going on. the muslim brotherhood wants a role in the new political life, the new political landscape we should have, come elections if hosni mubarak brings those to fruition. they say, they are not going to put in a candidate for the presidency. i think they know internationally that wouldn't be tolerated, because that would indicate leadership. muslim brotherhood leadership of egypt. that would fright a lot of people in the international community, most of all the united states to are very suspicious about them. simultaneously, it says it can't win a general election on its own as a stand alone party. it is certain it would have to join a coalition. once it does, it going after key positions. prime minister role, my guess the finance ministry, will
certainly try the defense ministry which most will object to. it will try and use its influence in key positions to control the country. we will see whether it gets that far. to be honest, until election day, no one knows if democracy going to come to egypt. >> greta: dominic, thank you. >> right now arizona governor brewer is declaring war, a different kind. taking on the obama administration over arizona's sb-1070 that controversial immigration bill she signed last year. three months after, the justice department filed a lawsuit against arizona challenging that law. now the governor is firing back with a counter suit against the federal government. governor brewer joins us live. good evening. >> good evening greta. >> greta: governor, tell me what did you do today? >> well, we an thousanded that we were going to -- we
announced that we were going to sue the federal government for not doing their . we didn't want this fight -- their job. we didn't want this fight. now we are in it, we are in it to win. the government has failed arizona and we believe they've failed the people of america. we counter sued. we are ready to go to war with them, as you indicated. >> greta: as i understand, they filed suit first against you. you're responding with your counter claim within that same suit is that correct? >> exactly. >> greta: and -- go ahead. >> we filed counter suit for their failure of not doing their job to secure our borders. failure for not enforcing the immigration laws. failure for not reimbursing the citizens of arizona for the incarceration. failure for not protecting the public safety and welfare of our citizens. and failure for not upholding
the 10th amendment and preempting the people of arizona to protect our own borders. >> greta: any reaction or has your attorney general had any conversations with the justice department leading up to the filing of your counter claim or even today in response to the press conference? >> not up to the time we filed suit he hasn't had any conversation. this afternoon, i don't know if they've been contacted. i was notified that the federal government didn't have a comment. just about two hours ago. we are still waiting. >> greta: have -- >> we are in it to win it. get growth i understand. have things improved, gotten worse or stayed the same in the last three months in arizona? >> i think that they have probably pretty much have stayed the same. when you talk to the ranchers they still are very concerned about their safety and concerned we continually are looking at arrests of the drug tar --
drug cartels here in arizona drugs, human smuggling. >> greta: people think of it mostly in the case of drug smuggling. but the human trafficking is a real crisis. not just on arizona but also on the people who are victims of this. the people who are smuggled in and the oppressive things that happen to them. it is terrible, isn't it? >> it is. they are victims. they are tortured and abused. and their families are extorted. it is wrong. that's to the what america and certainly what arizona is about. it is terrifying for these people that have these drop-houses. they wake up one morning and they have this element in their neighborhoods where their children are outside playing. they are the criminals he that are doing it. we are not going to put up with it. we will fight it all the way to the supreme court. like i said, we didn't start this fight.
we didn't want it. but we are in it to win for america. it is not cheap, but the people of america have really supported us. my legal defense fund people have responded to donated that has kept us going. we haven't spent one opinion any of arizona taxpayer dollars on the fight with the federal government in regards to this. anybody that is interested they can go to keyazsafe.com. we would appreciate it. i thank everyone that has contributed. without their help and support we couldn't do this. >> greta: what do you think about the news about senator jon kyl not running? any update about democratic congresswoman from arizona gabrielle giffords? >> well, i was on the phone this morning at about 8:00 our time talking to john and he told me he was going to make that announcement. i was pointed that he wasn't going to run. he's been a fabulous senator
for the state of arizona and america. he has served us well and he's a leader and he cares about his country. he has shown such great leadership, it is sad. but i'm happy for him and his family that he can do this. i know we have two more years of jon kyl there representing arizona and helping america get turned around. >> greta: and congresswoman giffords? >> from what i've understood and reports we've received is doing quite fabulous, unbelievably well. it is very encouraging. gabby has all been a fighter. she is a strong woman. i think all the good prayers and everything that support and encouragement she is being received as been remarkable in her recovery. >> greta: we are all pulling for her, governor thank you. >> egypt and the world held its breath today waiting for president mubarak to resign.
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79-year-old man. the explosion in allentown destroying a pair of row homes setting fire to a block of houses. investigators working to determine whether a more than 80-year-old gas main is to blame. >> suspected bank robber dead after a three hour standoff with police in north carolina. it happened hours ago at a wachovia bank outside raleigh. officers shooting and killing the 19-year-old suspect as he led a woman through the parking lot with a gun to her head. he took several hostages. no one else was hurt. >> for all your business news tune into fox business network. giving you the but we are to prosper. -- giving you the power to prosper. >> greta: president mubarak said he's not going anywhere. for hours we waited for reaction from president obama. the white house released a statement saying the egyptian government needs to layout a clear path to democracy. is president obama's statement
enough? dick morris joins us. before we should think about whether we criticize anybody else about how to handle it, this is a tough one, it? >> yeah, it is. but i think that obama is entirely pushing on one side of the fence. which is fine, he's pushing for democracy and elections and that's good. he also needs to be talking about excluding the muslim brotherhood from power. he has to be making cher that the people in the streets -- making clear that the people in the streets need to be sure their revolution is not hijacked by the muslim brotherhood and used as an excuse to turn israel into an iranian-like theocracy. >> greta: on the one hand you want to be pushing for democracy, but you don't want to get caught pushing too hard because it sends the signal that you abandoned your ally. president mubarak has been an
ally of the united states for 30 years. you want to push for democracy and push to a particular end but you don't want to get caught dictating what that end is. but you want it to happen. it is enormously tricky this process. >> yeah, but first of all he has left mubarak far behind. he's been pushing for him to go the minute the first demonstrations started in the street. you would never know from what he's saying that mubarak was our ally from the way obama is treating him watch concerns me is that the goal he should be looking for is something like the current situation in turkey. the secular tradition of not having a theocratic control of the government is guaranteed by the military. whenever the government, which is an islamic party moves too close to theocracy the military pushes it back. that's the kind of thing you want. if egypt guess the way of a
muslim brotherhood, we are -- goes the way of a muslim brotherhood. we are looking at the domino theory -- [ talking over each other ] >> greta: it threatens israel, emboldens syria, emboldens iran, two countries that are our enemies. there's no question it is a horrible thing if this goes into asia rhee law type country. -- goes into asia rhea law-type country. >> it is worse than that. you will have a radical muslim regimes throughout the region. the domino theory. if egypt goes with 85 million people the next largest country is algeria, not counting iran. the rest of islamic world in the middle east, north africa combined has a population only slightly more than iran plus egypt. jordan, syria, iraq,
saudi arabia, yemen, lebanon, libya, algeria, will go like so many dominoes. obama is really risking having the whole world get pulled out from unhim. >> greta: dick, thank you. >> talk about sticking it to valentine's day. someone who is cursing cupid. who's your someone? campbell's healthy request can help. low cholesterol, zero grams trans fat, and a healthy level of sodium. it's amazing what soup can do.
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slumber party scandal. we've told you of many lawmakers sleeping in their offices rather than renting costly apartments. citizens for responsibility those sleep overs investigated. they think the lawmakers may be getting an unfair tax break or violating their rules. congressman paul ryan says he slept in his office for years and it is no big deal. as for the citizens group, maybe they have too much time on their hands everyone we said that. >> today at c pac donald rumsfeld was honored with the defender of constitution award. and poked fun at former vice president cheney. >> i wouldn't be here today if
it hadn't been for the chance that donald rumsfeld was willing to take on an inexperienced young wet behind the ears graduate student over 40 years ago. he served twice as secretary of defense the only man in history to do that. the youngest secretary when he was worn in, in 1975 and the est secretary when he was sworn in, in 2001. [ laughing ] >> maybe if we give him a third term he'll get it right. >> greta: speaking of c pac want if go behind the scenes? tomorrow night griff jenkins having a voodoo valentine's day. those skeletal faces, pins and thorny stems should get rid of those bad break ups.
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